New Orleans repeating deadly levee mistakes

I knew it! I knew that Bush would be blamed, but I was surprised it would be the FIRST post! Even though the article stated the problems have been evident since 1965.

I am waiting for Bush to be blamed for the current rains in Florida.

Bush is to be blamed for an ineffective...no, non-existent rescue plan. It was OK in his book though because the majority of the suffering were not white. In the words of Kanye..."Bush hates black people."

Oh please your disgusting, I think you should have a listen to Rev Jesse Lee Peterson, his group was on cspan today and he is a black minister, I'm white and he made alot of sense!! Bush doesn't hate black people. you are just another one of those that want the government to take care of you. You might look up the new america.com and have a read.

Why did Blacks do ok in Mississippi, Alabama and Florida or does President Bush just dislike (a much better word than hate which continues to hurt the country and not President G W Bush) the Blacks in New Orleans?

My granddaugther's parents-in-law live in Baton Rouge and they said that if the Mayor and the Governor had done their jobs competently the destruction would not have been so bad.
Her brother-in-law worked on the rescue efforts and he said that as usual the Media overdid their reporting.

mspidge- Hahahahaha, you're funny!!! I'm white too. I grew up in Detroit. I know the view from both sides of the fence due to experience, not a radio program.

Is Bush using little bitty pebbles to build those levees again...DANG HIM!!

Oh well, they SURELY want be 100% built by the time he gets out of office. Obama can go down there & build them 100 feet tall & strong enough to withstand TWO catagory 5's at the same time!!

But what if McCain wins?? Yikes!! He'll put little bitty time bombs in them....or activate the ones that are already being secretly installed by Bush's own 2 hands.....DANG HIM!!

To killerb: If history is repeating itself, does that mean some whiny little mayor is going to be all over the news, blaming the rest of America for his city's lack of foresight? I wasn't alive in 1965, so I only know about Betsy from the history books, but I was alive 3 years ago. I assume most of the New Orleans City government officials were also alive when Katrina struck. Why are they letting people move back into houses that are THIRTEEN FEET BELOW SEA LEVEL!? Have they all lost their minds?

Oh wait... it will be my fault, because I am a racist taxpayer from another state.

cholla- the city was founded in 1718...at what point do you think that the federal government should have condemned it and said all should move...as well as the states of Florida and California and Texas....wherever there are disasters???

9/11 was a disaster that was basically caused by the hate our government causes around the world...should we no longer build above one story???

Kanye West didn't say Pres. Bush hated Black people. He said Bush didn't care about Black people. He accused the republican administration of ignoring Black voters, and he was right.

Agreed. Why is the public at large responsible to make unsafe land more safe? Most of the people in New Orleans will likely see similar flooding in their lifetimes? WTF? This whole situation is just stupid. Am I going to have to pay for the next one, too? And to build more levees that won't work?

cholla, evidently you don't realize that years ago, there were no 401Ks, IRAs, CDs, etc. Companies provided pension plans for their employees. Many companies either ended the pension plans or went out of business. People who were in minimum wage jobs were not able to save since it was all they could do to pay their necessary expenses. This happened not only in New Orleans, but all across the country.

You're judging this woman without knowing anything about her. She may have been a single mother who raised several children; perhaps her husband died and all she has is Social Security; maybe she took care of an ill parent or child and couldn't work in her younger years.

Have some compassion and stop judging those about whom you know nothing.

And perhaps she was irresponsible earlier in life.

Cholla obviously doesn't know the specifics of this woman. His/her comment is really more of a generalization. Obviously people run into problems. My wife was recently diagnosed with a life altering illness. It has put a strain on things. But we weren't living paycheck to paycheck, so it has required adjustment, but isn't the end of the world.

What cholla is saying is a generalization. There are plenty of people, cholla and I included, that are sick of the never ending excuses about why they can't seem to afford to make ends meet. I have to deal with this with my own mother. She is college educated - even has a masters degree. But she continues to make stupid financial decisions, especially on purchasing unnecessary stuff, and she is never going to be able to retire comfortably because she has refused, for years, despite my efforts to bail her out time and again. She simply refuses to be responsible. And if you looked at her, where she lives etc. you'd think she was smart and middle class. She is just going to have to work until she can't work any more.

Such is the situation with many if not most of the poor. They just won't listen.

I am sick of the excuses.

And I want to know why, at the age of 76, this woman is still in the work force. I guess the "golden years" have tarnished!!!

guess you have not been in a grocery store lately. Duhhhh

Hahahaha

The corps is also responsible for almost all of the levees and flood protection on the entir Mississippi and other places that flood. New Orleans was there for years and years without this happening. Maybe we shoudl leave it to the states to rebuild all those houses and properties who decide to build in the flood planes and maybe we should not help the millionaires who decide to build in the areas of the west that are prone to fire!

The article states that 22000 properties were built since the 65 flood. Why is this. These were not there for "years and years" as you say. New Orleans shouldn't be building and building below sea level. And everybody else in the country shouldn't have to pay to fix it every time it gets destroyed.

Wow, what a sad, sour, pitiful comment. As for your previous comment, not much can be done about tornadoes. You cannot predict their path but you can move your trailer home. The river has always been where it's at, the only variable is it's height. That can be addressed. Nawlenslady is absolutely correct about the technology that is used in the Netherlands and the fact that our government is lacking in protecting a world class city.

She deserves the same protections we all deserve when there is a disaster

I don't deserve anything for which I don't work. Those are the deserving people - the ones who were told by the insurance companies - and the government - that they didn't need flood insurance. The ones who worked hard all of their lives, paid their mortgages and other obligatons, insurance premiums, and who kept their properties in excellent shape. The ones who did everything "right" and who were told by the insurance companies "tough - we aren't paying your claim".

I don't expect anything from the government - local, state or federal. But why does our government throw good money after bad? Why do they tell people that the levees will hold if another storm comes when they know it's not true? Why does the government continue to give money, food and other benefits to people who REFUSE to work and don't pay taxes but balks at helping those who have done their parts for years?

As for the first commenter's remark about "blaming Bush". The only thing I blame Bush for is putting ineffective people in high-profile jobs - like the head of FEMA. I just think the money that's been spent on his 13 or 14 trips to the Gulf Coast would have been better spent elsewhere.

To a certain extent, I agree with you logdump. She deserves protection from disaster. The New Orleans city government is failing her right now, by allowing her to live in a house that is so prone to flooding. I always thought that cities shared some responsibility when they sign up with FEMA. In exchange for receiving disaster relief and being able to offer flood insurance to its residents, the cities are supposed to limit development in flood prone areas.

Maybe that area should be zoned commercial or industrial, and a business owner can assess his own risk, ie the trade-off between having access to the ocean vs. the potential for catastrophic loss. Another option would be to convert the low-lying areas to parks, nature preserves or some other public use that poses minimal risk to human life. Under no circumstances should those areas be zoned residential. Before Katrina, it would have been pretty difficult to move everybody out. Now though, there is absolutely no excuse for letting anyone move back into that area. It was 100% lost, and the people could have been relocated elsewhere to live. Certainly not in such a dangerous area.

Since the US government is paying for it, they ought to have some input as to where the people are going to live. The next time it floods, we will all have to endure another round of speeches from their pathetic excuse for a mayor, blaming the rest of America for his city's amazing lack of foresight.

The Federal Government has a responsibility to it's people and a sound infrastructure is part of that. Wherever it is that you live, you are not immune to "acts of God". Nor do I believe you are fully prepared. I wonder how silent you would be if your home were destroyed by such an event.

we may not ne immune to "acts of God" but why is it the governments job to fix all "acts od God"?

The Roman Empire fell when 80% of the people expected the government (20%) to take care of them. Folks, it ain't goin' happen.

Jean-The flow of a river CAN be controlled, unlike other "acts of God"....that's why.

Killerb,
The flow of the river can be controlled?? To a point, it can be contained. When you put levees along a river you restrict its movement to it natural flood plain. When a levied river comes to a city, they narrow the channel to keep the river from becoming too wide. This works like a dam with a hole in it. The water rises because of constriction, then flows faster through the narrow because of height. This in turn erodes the levee from fast moving water. the the levee fails. Only to a point can you control a river. Dams can be used. But, again, only they work to a point. They have spillways for water they cannot hold to go through.

Yes, look and see how the Netherlands do it. Google Delta Works. There are other people on this earth that have figured things out that work. Why do we think a mound of dirt will work??? And pay a mint for it!!!

To those of you who are sick of people expecting the government to do something for them, or take care of them, I ask you, what in your opinion, is the federal government's job? If they aren't supposed to take care of people, what is their purpose?

Cancer1,
I believe you are referring to

Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

we just have different opinions on what that "general welfare" is. Is it to feed them off the backs of others?Is it to teach the to care for themselves?Is it to protect them if they live below sea level or discourage them from doing so?

It's not the 1800's, it's 2008.

Exactly!!! There is technology that will prevent this from happening in the future. This is a wonderful, vibrant city that has been there since 1718. To wipe it off the map is unthinkable. The Government needs to put up the cash to protect it's tax paying citizens, period!!!

what is unthinkable is the loss of innocent lives when adults choose to live in an area below sea level and then refuse to go to higher ground to protect the little ones they are entrusted with. The lives of the people in particular the children is more important than a silly city. If it is not cost effective to build proper protection than abandon the city and use the money to help relocate the people and find them new jobs.

sonya- we are ALL little ones to the Federal Government that we pay taxes to. It is their responsibility to protect us with a reasonably sound infrastructure. The Army Corps of Engineers should all be held accountable for shoddy workmanship. I do not pay tax dollars for inept technology when there is sound technology to be had. You expect too little from your government and pay too much for what you receive....which is nothing.

Killerb,
I will protect myself first, and always. I won't wait for someone to save me. Now having said that, the general order was given to evacuate. That was from the government, the first stage of the public defense. The levees are an engineered defense but just like guards on a machine, should not be used as a first line of protection. Guards are usually painted a bright color (yellow, or red) so that you don't lean on stick fingers into or otherwise violate the defensive perimeter of the guard. Another words to keep you back from the dangerous parts. Just like the general order to evacuate. Now if you stick your finger in there or stayed in New Orleans, I can't say I feel sorry for you. The Tornado siren sounds, do you run outside and look, or do you seek proper shelter. Furter more the levees were only built to withstand a cat 3 storm. Having been pounded by a high 4 low 5 storm, I think the levees did remarkably well.

It was the poor and old people that did not/could not leave the city. You are blaming the most vulnerable for inaction. BTW, it's OK, you can be non PC, I get that you are a closed minded white guy. Speak your mind. I'm a white guy too... you can't pull the wool over my eyes. I know your kind all too well.

The mayor in his disaster plan should have taken those that couldn't leave into account. There was (I don't have exact number) many buses flooded. Why?? They could have been used to evacuate the people without cars. The blame game you are playing doesn't go to the feds.

I don't buy it that most couldn't leave. Some sure. The rest just didn't bother. One more bad decision in a lifetime of bad decisions.

lorent- although your name says it all, if you were really LOW rent, you would understand why the poor and old have a hard time with transportation. When is the last time you were on a bus?

I was on a bus a week and a half ago. I probably ride them once a month. I have ridden them to Vegas many times. While I don't have to use them, they make sense sometimes. It would certainly make sense if that was my only option to get out of the way of a killer storm. I said some might have had too much difficulty. I am not arguing that. But that doesn't mean they all did. Or even most of them did. Lots of people regularly ignore storm warnings. Part of that is the lame storm warning categorization and the government crying wolf all the time. But since the same places flooded the same way in '65, there shouldn't have been any question about the risk. I am sure, that like all lapses of responsibility the the "low rent" districts as you are referring to them, a whole slew of people decided they just didn't want to leave rather than that they couldn't figure out how to. You can let your bleeding heart flow all you want, but plenty of us are sick of all the excuses people make for the irresponsible poor and the people that make them.

Irresponsible poor? Would you mind clarifying that remark?

I say that to make the distinction that it is my belief that most of the people that have trouble making ends meet are their own worst enemy. Their bad decisions, often a lifetime of them, are more responsible for their economic state than something outside of them. Too many people are irresponsible, and it shouldn't be my responsibility to bail them out.

And I suppose it's their fault they're poor, too?

I am amazed by how many heartless, uncaring people there are in this country. We love to look down our noses at people, ESPECIALLY people who aren't as fortunate, lucky, skilled, educated, etc. Life throws things at you sometimes that you aren't prepared to deal with. If it were easy being wealthy, we'd all have money, wouldn't we? And if it weren't for the poor people, who would you wealthy people have to look down your nose at, hmmm?

It's comments like this that astound me! When I pay my taxes, I would like to see something in return, yet I see nothing. You sit here and defend the government for taking no action at all. Answer me this...where are your tax dollars going????

No disrespect intended but.....Wonderfull, vibrant city? I had the chance to pass through N.O. a year before the flood and it was dingy, stinky and crime-ridden.

I agree with BJ-10000 that building on a floodplain shouldn't be allowed and the only reason NO was given so much money to rebuild was the pressure put on politicians by those who had $$ invested there. Tax dollars were used to rebuild the Superdome before most received assistance to rebuild their homes. Sad priorities to be setting. Building on floodplains should not be allowed period.

You pay taxes ONLY to the federal government? No state, county, or municipalities?

Just wondering.

In the case of New Orleans, the first blame goes to those who stayed, then to the mayor (all those school buses under water could have evacuated thousands, had they wanted to leave in the first place) then to the state. Now when the rescue efforts started, the (dang it, I really don't want to be PC here) delusional individuals started shooting at the rescue helicopters. Well guess what, they went to a place were they didn't get shot at. Then they blame the response time on the Feds. Wake up. Please, this is not the Federal Government fault.

Yup, in diminishing increments.

Martha-

it was dingy, stinky and crime-ridden.

As are most major cities, viewed through a suburban eye. Where is it that you live because I have never been to a major metropolitan city that did not have these qualities somewhere. That is not the reason to take a city out but a reason to give a city a helping hand.

killerb.
All the mayors and governors of the neighboring states were out in force, talking with their citizens, making sure things were being done. The flood was the biggest thing that happened in New Orleans the hurricane was worse and just as much or more damage done in Mississippi. Louisiana was given billons earlier to repair the levees and they elected to do other things with the money.

President Bush will be taking the blame for everything for at least the next 4 to 8 years.
And he takes it without making a scene

Are you going to burn down houses in Denver if all does not go right for Obama?
Are you going to burn down houses in Denver when Obama gets the nomination?

All the mayors and governors of the neighboring states were out in force, talking with their citizens,

None suffered as sever as New Orleans...that's not to say local authorities did not mismanage...they did as well.

President Bush will be taking the blame for everything for at least the next 4 to 8 years.
And he takes it without making a scene

He DAMN well better...he deserves jail time!!! He does not make a scene because he ignores anything but his own and Cheneys' voice playing in his empty head.

Jean-357410 - The money wasn't given to Louisiana because Louisiana isn't responsible for the repair and maintenance of the levees. The Corp of Engineers - a Federal government agency - is responsible.

"None suffered as sever as New Orleans...that's not to say local authorities did not mismanage...they did as well....."

You better check the damage to Mississippi.

Ok, Spike- I just did the research...more than 40,000 in New Orleans were displaced where as in Mississippi it is around 37,000. I hold firm to my statement.

New Orleans was flooded, not leveled, as the Mississippi coast was.

Doesn't matter...numbers don't lie. Casinos can be rebuilt.

Think again, I live in Cali. The problem of an inefficient federal government spans the whole United States.

What a great comment. No bitching, no whining, If you want to be President you have my vote

I recently returned from a vacation to Washington, DC, something I've wanted to do my entire life. It was a fun, educational and, at times, very moving experience.

One thing we've all neglected to say here is that the reason we're able to have such a lively debate is because WE LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We live in the greatest country in the world. With all of our challenges - local, state and federal government-related as well as anything else we can think of - WE ARE THE LUCKIEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. Whatever the government does or doesn't do, we still have the right to express our opinions.

Everyone should remember that different isn't necessarily wrong, it's just different. We all have differences - age, race, religion, height, weight, eye and hair color, opinions, etc., etc. But most of us all have one major thing in common - we are all free to do and say what we want without having to fear death or incarceration. We are all lucky US Citizens!!

I welcome everyone's comments and this lively discussion. Please remember one thing - don't judge unless you've walked in someone else's shoes.

oldcavscout- I pay taxes...did I make $125,000, no...somehow, I doubt you did too.

-

You live in a country where if you hurt yourself, you can walk into one of any of the thousands of state of the art hospitals and be treated without paying one cent.

Wrong, where I live most hospitals are closing due to all the illegals usurping the system. I pay for health insurance where the premiums just went up and the services just went down.

-

You have hundreds of thousands of roadways which you can safely commute from point a to point b. While traveling these roadways, take a look at the bridges, dams, overpasses, underpasses, signs, upkeep, and barriers to protect you while driving.

Tell that to the family members in Minnesota that lost loved ones in the bridge collapse.

-

You have an all-volunteer military which, whether you agree with it or not, keep you safe every minute of the day.

Tell that one to the family members that lost loved ones on 9/11.

If your property catches fire, there will almost always be a trained firefighting force at the location within minutes.

I personally lost a cabin due to an electrical fire. Total loss.

If you are a victim or witness of a crime, you will have trained law enforcement officers at your side in a very short period of time. Also, take into account the number of crimes which are stopped before they happen.

Tell that to Matthew Sheppards' family.

You are probably one of the 65 plus percent of Americans which own a home.

I was, now I am a renter...so you are wrong again.

You will probably draw way more in the way of a social security check than you paid in.

I highly doubt that as I cannot even imagine retirement at this point.

Thanks to the FBI, DHS, CIA, NSA, and numerous other organizations, you do not have to walk down the sidewalk worrying whether someone is going to commit a suicide bombing 10 feet away from you.

St. Louis...World Trade Center twice...good job fellas.

You are like McCain...old and blind to the world around you!!!

I have never in my life seen such a waste of money.

Our tax paid money for a so called "war" in Iraq would seem to trump money spent for a reliable infrastructure by trillions!!!

OK, the 2nd biggest waste of money.

really?....Halliburton, Blackwater....

BruceNY, I gues the NY is for New York, if so what are all the people that live in Manhatten going to do when a hurricane floods the entire island, all those basements of skyscrappers flooded, no powere for weeks, (everything is underground), most New Yorkers don't even own a car.

I bet so many will evacuate up, thats a stupid move, when the infrastructure is destroyed, even though above sea level, there will be no way to dispense food and water to all the people.

They choose to live on the coast, with the potential for a major hurricane, true it's not as high a potential as New Orleans, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonvile, Pensacola, Biloxi, and all the communities in between, we all pay taxs and deserve the full protection that "our" tax dollars can provide.

killerb
Who but Haliburton can do that job? Pres Clinton thought so much of them that he used them in Bosnia and guess what no bidding just said get in there and do your thing. Darn, I forgot he was a Dem so it was OK

Haliburton's major stockholder is the J B J family

what can be done about a hurricane?????....

Secure levees, that's what.

i will build my tornado shelter. without the help of the feds.

Yup, keep sending your tax dollars with no expectations...sheep...bahhhh.

Who's stupid??? If you want to respond to a specific comment, that is what the "reply" button is for.

Secure levees??? Evacuate. The best protection is to not be there.

Easy, if you have means to...are you one of those elitists the republicans keep talking about???

no just use the 100 buses sitting there very little traffic jam

Thank you, CanadaCares, for seeing the good in our wonderful city!

Look, we are talking about a world class city that has been there for hundreds of years. I would understand your point if we were talking about scattered folks along the banks in rural communities, but that is not the case. You cannot just turn your back on a major metropolitan area. As a nation, we give aid to people all over the world yet we find it easy to neglect our own. That is truly a shame.
BTW, yes... living in earthquake land can be trying and just try getting earthquake insurance, you can't. Another situation where you cannot predict the damage. But if there is technology to strengthen the levees and supervise the flow of water in the river....use it, pay for it.

Tornadoes, hurricanes, twisters, droughts etc. require a written definition. Earthquake got an entire word named for it and no explanation is necessary.

In 1993 the mid-west flooded. Fema paid for people to move from the flooded areas. They would not allow their money to be used to rebuild in the flood plain. This was thousands of people. Why should New Orleans be any different. Equal treatment, isn't that what we all want?

And in this case, FEMA paid for toxic trailers that people got sick in. Equal treatment???

Government programs for those who are to lazy, ignorant & unrealisticly expect someone else to bail them out.

I would bet money that this comment is from a Southern Christian.

BTW...check your spelling...who's ignorant???

Yep: These folks mostly on welfare for generations, now living high on the hog since Katrina (my tax dollars) want more Govt. Help instead of helping themselves..

now living high on the hog since Katrina (my tax dollars)

Yeah, living on champagne, steaks and driving Caddies.... show me, where do get this tripe from???

Thanks Brian!

Ok, fine, so when it happens again and again we just keep rebuilding? When is enough enough?

Please Google Delta Works and see how the Netherlands control their problem. I don't understand why all you people are holier than thou...until a disaster hits you.

We don't mean to eliminate New Orleans. Just not use federal money to rebuild below sea level. No building below sea level, no levees needed. How much tax money could be saved to pay for the other need in this nation. The river will still be there. Actually the river would be in better shape without the city. The levees have altered the flow of the river and it is actually higher now then it has been in the past.

martvol-where do you live? can we obliterate your home? I'm sure it means nothing to you, right? But then, you're probably white so that means you are more entitled to your piece of land.